Our Families, Faith, Vatican II, Sacraments, Common Sense etc.
A website devoted to defending, promoting and providing for Vatican II in humility and prayer. Please join our prayer warriors to bring God’s grace to all souls. Check out the Defending Vatican II tab for our apologetics or links to other great resources. Check out the general book/website review tab also. (If you like something please share or like) See below for a list of our recent posts.
Want Some Great Vatican II Fruit? Check this Page out! Here is a taste of the fruits – better Post Vatican II retention than other Christian groups, New Evangelization, Best Marian Council ever preparing the way for the declaration of Mary as Co-redemptrix Mediatrix (LG- 62), more diverse scripture reading in mass, Lay associations like Opus Dei, re-institution of the rites of Christian initiation for adults and the catechumenate, popularization of marriage as covenant rather than older contract theology/speech, communal penance services restoring its communitive ideals, increased synods and smaller local church councils, and more to come. https://defendingvatican2.ca/defending-vatican-ii/6-0-historical-facts-and-post-vatican-ii-trends/
“There is no point at which Vatican II departs from any dogmatic teaching of the Council of Trent, but at Vatican II, Trent and its problematic ceased to serve as the supreme touchstone of faith. The Tradition was no longer read in light of Trent; Trent was read in the light of the tradition” Joseph A. Komonchak, “The Council of Trent at the Second Vatican Council”
“My Challenge to you – If you think the historical background characters of Vatican II were bad – then look up what happened at the first 7 ecumenical councils – you will find worse.“
“Vatican II was less ambiguous than Nicaea was on purpose about the Holy Spirit being God to avoid offending different parties“
“It is not a Catholic way of thinking to take your private judgment of Vatican II and current theology over that of the living magisterium of the Church“
“99% of Bishops saw the need for Reform at Vatican II and voted as such. Is it not a little prideful to assume that you are right in saying that no reform was required like Vatican II, than to admit that it was and they were right?“
The Basic Idea – The Website’s Thesis
Proverbs 22:28 Remove not the ancient landmark which your fathers set up (NAB)
Ironically, the proverb commonly quoted to critique Vatican II’s adaptations to meet the demands of modern times can now be used in its defense. What this website argues is that Vatican II did not break with tradition. In fact, since the last 3 Popes and vast majority of all bishops have been explicitly pro Vatican II it is (always has been since beginning) part of the Ordinary and Universal Magisterium of the church as an ecumenical council in its teaching authority. Thus, its contents (all parts) are guarded against grave error by that very fact even in its non-infallible teachings. Vatican II did not make any dogmatic pronouncements extraordinarily because its contents are part of the Ordinary and Universal Magisterium of the church in line with previous generations and so guarded by the Holy Spirit from error. What this website seeks is to humbly learn from what God has given the modern world through dialogue and prayer. Since, 3 Popes after the council have supported it as the pastoral approach to meet the world’s demands we can say that it is now the ancient landmark which should not be moved indiscreetly except by those whom the authority has been given.
Are texts with titles like – Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, Lumen Gentium – Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation, Dei Verbum —- Pastoral? No, they would not be Dogmatic then but Pastoral Constitutions.
Read Point 22 in the Syllabus of Errors! The following point is in error. “22. The obligation by which Catholic teachers and authors are strictly bound is confined to those things only which are proposed to universal belief as dogmas of faith by the infallible judgment of the Church.—Letter to the Archbishop of Munich, “Tuas libenter,” Dec. 21, 1863.” — You can’t only accept extraordinary teaching but must also accept ordinary teaching, which all ecumenical council fall under, even the pastoral ones of the medieval ages and Vatican II with religious submission. Even though religious submission is different than the assent of faith it is still gravely serious.
Cardinal Ratzinger: “To defend the true tradition of the Church today means to defend the Council … And this today of the Church is the documents of Vatican II, without reservations that amputate them and without arbitrariness that distorts them” (The Ratzinger Report, p. 31)
Vatican II – YouTube Reason and Theology’s Review of Dr. Taylor Marshall’s views on Vatican II. Point by point responses! Lofton is an expert on teaching authority and shows that rejecting Vatican II is not consistent with the faith.
Hope in Mercy with Fr. Michael Gaitley – YouTube – Fr. Gaitley call Vatican II a rock for our time!
Why Catholics Can’t Reject Vatican II w/ Timothy Gordon – YouTube Matt Fradd interviews Timothy Gordon ” – When I check into Vatican II (in disputed points) it gets way better..”
Vatican II – YouTube Series from Archidiacre. The Subsistit video and the Religious Liberty videos translated into English are great finds
This one is a food for thought piece. Pope Pius VI condemned the following proposition as heretical.
I. The proposition that “in recent centuries there has been a general obscuration on the most important truths of religion and that they are the basis of the faith and morality of the doctrine of Jesus Christ” -Heretical. Bolla Auctorem fidei (Roma, 28 agosto 1794) (vatican.va)
If someone every tries to tell you that holiness is not accessible in the Church unless it radically changes its ways and you have to shun almost everything that is currently practiced – think of the above quote.
End to the pachamama debate. Watch the video of the event. (Link Here) Go to 13:20 and listen when the woman gives the statue to Francis and says Our Lady of the Amazon. The Statue was Mary with Christ in her womb – no idol worship. The latter Vatican remark about it not being Mary has been misquoted. The women leader’s latter statement can be reconciled to the faith. (See the full article here)
Word on Fire Q and A on Vatican II. Link Here
“The Second Vatican Ecumenical Council has been a gift of the Spirit to his Church. For this reason it remains a fundamental event not only for understanding the Church’s history at this end of the century, but first and foremost for exploring the abiding presence of the risen Christ beside his Bride in the course of world events.” ( The Celebration of the Great Jubilee 27 February 2000)
— Pope St. John Paul II
Does a Teaching Need to be a Dogma Extraordinarily Proclaimed to be Binding or Guarded from Grave Error? Can Something only Part of the Ordinary (and not Universal) Magisterium be a Grave Error?
“The theologians seem to agree that, although the guarantee of infallibility applies in its strictest sense only to the exercise of the extraordinary magisterium, that is, to ex cathedra pronouncements, yet in the exercise of his powers of the ordinary Magisterium, the Pope has the protection and guidance of the Holy Spirit, at least to the extent that Almighty God would not allow him to make a serious mistake in teaching the universal Church.” (Papal Social Principles: A Guide and Digest, Fr. Thomas J. Harte, C.Ss.R., Ph.D., Bruce Publishing Co., 1956). For a lot more quote translate this page to English Erros graves do Vaticano II? – Apologista Católicos (apologistascatolicos.com.br)
“[The Council] has invested its teachings with the authority of the supreme ordinary magisterium, which ordinary magisterium is so obviously authentic that it must be accepted with docility and sincerity by all the faithful, according to the mind of the Council as expressed in the nature and aims of the individual documents.”
— Pope St. Paul VI
“The tensions that developed after the Council are not surprising to those who know the whole history of the Church. It is a historical fact that whenever there is an outpouring of the Holy Spirit as in a general council of the Church, there is always an extra show of force by the anti-Spirit or the demonic. Even at the beginning, immediately after Pentecost and the descent of the Spirit upon the apostles, there began a persecution and the murder of Stephen. If a general council did not provoke the spirit of turbulence, one might almost doubt the operation of the third Person of the Trinity over the assembly.” Treasure in Clay by Bishop Sheen.
Recent Posts and Reviews
Catholic Conspiracies After Vatican II with Fr. Charles T. Murr and Kevin Symonds – YouTube In this excellent resource the masonic relationship of Archbishop Bugnini and the Vatican II Liturgy. It takes the stance that Bugnini was a Masson – hence he was ‘promoted’ by Pope Saint Paul VI to Iran. It also discusses howContinue reading “Catholic Conspiracies After Vatican II”
Why This Canada Day Vatican II Thinking (Religious Liberty, Respecting Cultures, Evangelize From Within) Gives Hope When Previous Catholic Mindsets Failed and Resulted in Residential Schools (Religious Restriction, Destroying Cultures, Evangelizing by Force)
As a Canadian Catholic I have much to think about this Canada day over the discovery of more unmarked graves of children from residential schools run by Catholic missionaries and churches. Compared to other countries Canada has developed a rather spotless history compared to most western countries. Slavery and Civil War blackens the States, andContinue reading “Why This Canada Day Vatican II Thinking (Religious Liberty, Respecting Cultures, Evangelize From Within) Gives Hope When Previous Catholic Mindsets Failed and Resulted in Residential Schools (Religious Restriction, Destroying Cultures, Evangelizing by Force)”
Neither Pope Francis’s Magisterium, nor the Second Vatican Council’s documents, can be interpreted through a proper hermeneutic of continuity if one does not understand the concept of “doctrinal development.” Those who criticize those teachings, however, will often try to invalidate… The post The flight of the doctrinal butterfly appeared first on Where Peter Is. The flightContinue reading “The flight of the doctrinal butterfly — Where Peter Is”
List of All locations where Vatican II uses in-text Saint references. (this does not included places where texts are referenced but the saint names are not used in the text but instead included as a footnote/endnote – the footnoted references are in the hundreds) The focus is on Saints in the popular sense. For example,Continue reading “List of Locations Saints are Referenced in Vatican II: All 16 Documents”
Is it a weapon to deny someone the Eucharist? Yes, in a sense because it cuts someone off from something. Yet, is that a problem? No, if it is to save their soul. Yes, if it is to simply make some politician win and only for that point. Even St. Paul rebukes people and tellsContinue reading “Weaponization of the Eucharist and Vatican II”
I did not find The Napoleon of Notting Hill by Chesterton to be my favorite novel. There were several long winded and over done passages in my opinion, but that being said – the overall twist that the novel offers were some of the best ever written. I don’t want to give any of theContinue reading “Chesterton – “The Napoleon of Notting Hill”: and Where Magic and Poems Come From in the Liturgy”
“[F]rom the moment of its conception life must be guarded with the greatest care while abortion and infanticide are unspeakable crimes.” (Gaudium et spes, 51)
“We believe that this one true religion subsists in the Catholic and Apostolic Church, to which the Lord Jesus committed the duty of spreading it abroad among all men.” (Dignitatis humanae, 1)
“This religious submission of mind and will must be shown in a special way to the authentic magisterium of the Roman Pontiff, even when he is not speaking ex cathedra; that is, it must be shown in such a way that his supreme magisterium is acknowledged with reverence, the judgments made by him are sincerely adhered to, according to his manifest mind and will. His mind and will in the matter may be known either from the character of the documents, from his frequent repetition of the same doctrine, or from his manner of speaking.” (Lumen gentium, 25)
“Vatican II happened 50 years ago, but it surely doesn’t belong to the past, its light still leads the Church through the darkness of her journey today”
— Cardinal Zen
“The Second Vatican Council was an extraordinary time of reflection, dialogue and prayer which aimed to renew the gaze of the Catholic Church on herself and on the world. [It involved] a reading of the signs of the times in view of an update oriented by a twofold faithfulness: faithfulness to the ecclesial tradition and faithfulness to the history of the men and women of our time.”
— Pope Francis
“There was no need to re-examine the deposit of faith, as councils usually did, but there was need to look at it and find new ways for the Church to exercise her mission more effectively. . . . The Second Vatican Council is therefore a missionary council. It was called not directly to change the Church, so that she could catch up with a tortured world, but rather to change that world.”
— Cardinal Francis George, OMI
Humani Generis Pope Pius XII, #20. “Nor must it be thought that what is expounded in Encyclical Letters does not of itself demand consent, since in writing such Letters the Popes do not exercise the supreme power of their Teaching Authority. For these matters are taught with the ordinary teaching authority, of which it is true to say: “He who heareth you, heareth me”; and generally what is expounded and inculcated in Encyclical Letters already for other reasons appertains to Catholic doctrine. But if the Supreme Pontiffs in their official documents purposely pass judgment on a matter up to that time under dispute, it is obvious that that matter, according to the mind and will of the Pontiffs, cannot be any longer considered a question open to discussion among theologians.“
Read above Pope Pius XII said that even teaching in encyclicals that are not infallible and ex-cathedra teachings still demand consent. How much so for ecumenical councils! Even pre-Vatican Popes knew and recognized that teaching even in the ordinary sense must be adhered too, because he who hears the Pope hears Christ.
(I do respect other opinions, I myself get things wrong. I hope these can be taken in a gesture of good will if you disagree with the contents.) Consider these pictorial arguments. I am not making light of opposing views as if they were uneducated. This is just some fun.
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